V神一次性全解读，以太坊当前最新进展和挑战：EIP1559、Rollup、分片、竞争公链

后来从状态通道之后，衍生出了 Plasma ,服务是有一些节点来提供的。用户只需要关心使用就好了。但 Plasma 有个问题，当数据没有给到你的时候，你如何信任 Plasma 的节点，怎么知道它们在作恶还是没有作恶。这是之前非常困难的问题。在二层的数据，当节点不给你的时候，你不知道它在做什么。

Then after the status channel, Plasma was derived and the service was provided. Users just need to care about it. But there's a problem with Plasma, how you trust Plasma's node when the data don't come to you, and how you know they're not. That's a very difficult question. In second-tier data, you don't know what it's doing when the node doesn't come to you.

在 Plasma 的假设中，如果用户依然要检测网络的状态。用户没有拿到新的数据的时候，就要从 Plasma 网络中逃跑，因为用户就应该假设 Plasma 的这些节点在作恶。所以 Plasma 也是有多少小时或者几天的过渡期的，就是挑战期。这其实和现在的 Optimistic Rollup 是类似的。最终 Plasma 没有被以太坊生态所接受。（V神上线......）

In Plasma's hypothesis, if the user still wants to detect the network's state. When the user does not get the new data, it escapes from the Plasma network, because the user should assume that Plasma's nodes are working. So how many hours or days of transition is Plasma, the challenge period. This is exactly the same as the current Optimistic Rollup.

02

Rollup 存在的问题

/span'

咕噜：今天中国社区实在太热情了。我还是做个简短的开场白。

The Chinese community is so passionate today. I'd like to make a brief opening statement.

今天为什么选这个主题？是因为我们自己也在看 Rollup 的调研，我们自己也准备在以太坊二层的 Rollup 上选一个 Rollup，启动一个去中心化的交易协议。在调研过程中，我越来越觉得基于 Rollup 的二层会成为以太坊未来的主流。有可能未来的某个时间，大家在使用以太坊时，主要就是在使用以太坊的二层。这样的转变对以太坊本身，以及对于整个生态都是质的变化。我是认为基于 Rollup 的二层技术会对整个行业带来飞跃性的变化。

Why today? Because we're looking at Rollup's research, and we're going to pick Rollup on the second floor of Ether to start a decentralised deal deal. In the course of the research, I increasingly feel that the second tier based on Rollup will become the mainstream of the future of Ether.

所以我自己是非常非常看好二层的技术。这也是为什么今天选这个话题的原因。

So I'm very, very good at second-tier technology myself. That's why we're here today.

大家非常热情，我有时候都看不到评论区的问题了。今天的主题主要是通过你问我答的方式完成的。大家提问题，Vitalik 来回答。相信大家最近也看过很多关于 Rollup 的文章了。

You're very passionate, and I sometimes don't see comment areas. Today's theme is done mainly by asking me questions. Ask questions, Vitalik. I'm sure you've seen a lot of articles about Rollup recently.

闲话少说，我们进入正题。我先抛砖引玉。我的这个问题也是很多想在 Rollup二层上做开发的开发团队很关心的问题。

Now, let's cut to the chase. I'm going to roll. My problem is a lot of development teams that want to develop on the Rollup 2nd floor.

二层的 Rollup 安全是基于一层的数据。像 Optimistic Rollup 是通过经济挑战来完成的，ZK Rollup 是通过零知识证明完成的。

Rollup security on the second floor is based on one layer of data. like Optimistic Rollup is done through economic challenges, and ZK Rollup is proven by zero knowledge.

1、咕噜：在 Rollup 上的安全性和一层相比是怎样的？比如我们做了 MYKEY 的智能钱包，用户能否把智能钱包的账户不在一层上部署了，直接部署在二层上？比如 Optimistic Rollup 的安全性会不会足够？更进一步，未来如果发 Token 的合约也直接在二层上而不再在一层上部署？

1, Gollum: What is the security and first layer compared to the Rollup? , for example, we made a smart wallet for MYKEY, and could the user not deploy the smart wallet account on the first floor, directly on the second floor? Is the security of Optimistic Rollup enough?

Vitalik：这个问题是特别重要的。一个 Rollup 的安全性涉及到两方面的问题。一个是应用的安全性，二是资产的安全性。资产的安全是指你如果在 Rollup 中有币或资产，币或资产会不会丢，会不会有人会攻击 Rollup 偷走你的币；系统的安全是指，如果你有一个应用在二层上，如果 Rollup 被攻击或者出现问题，哪怕币还在，但应用不能在做什么了。

Vitalik: This is an issue of particular importance. A Rollup security involves two issues.

资产的安全性基本已经没什么问题了。在 ZK Rollup 中完全没有什么安全的问题。每一个 Rollup 的区块有一个零知识证明，就不会出现将一个未经验证的区块放进来的可能。在 Optimistic Rollup 就有可能会有问题，但是个区间的问题。如果存在一个有问题的区块，而有人能在新区块产生前发现就没什么问题了。所以我觉得资产安全不是大的问题。

The safety of has absolutely no security problem in ZK Rollup. Each Rollup block has a zero-knowledge proof that there is no possibility of putting an uncertified block in it. In Optimistic Rollup, there may be problems, but between. If there is a faulty block, there is nothing wrong with the new block. So I don't think asset security is a big problem.

系统本身的安全有可能是更大的问题。现在的 Rollup 都比较简单。现在的 Rollup 是使用一个服务器打包区块，如果服务器崩了，有一段时间 Rollup 是不能用的。

The security of the system itself may be a bigger problem . Now Rollup is simple. Now Rollup is a server to pack blocks, and if the server crashes, Rollup will not work for some time.

未来有很多方法可以解决这个问题。很多方法在做去中心化的服务器，如果一个节点没有发区块，第二个或者第三个可以去发区块。有很多方法。但现在的 Rollup 还不支持这些方法。我们先去解决资产安全性的问题，Rollup 的第二个阶段会解决系统性的问题。

There are many ways to solve this problem in the future. There are many ways to do a decentralised server, and if one node does not send a block, the second or third can send a block. There are many ways. But the Rollup does not support them.

咕噜：我能不能这样理解，在现阶段还是不建议直接把比如智能钱包的合约仅仅部署在二层上，或者把币直接放在二层上面？在第二阶段也许是可以的？

/ strong: Can I understand that at this stage

Vitalik：我觉得现在可以开始把一些应用放在二层。有很多区块链应用不需要 24 小时的跑，即使有安全问题，不会有太大损失。比如很多非金融的应用可以这样做。比如用区块链做一些记录，或者 NFT 就已经可以放在 Rollup 中。

Vitalik: I think it's time to start putting some applications on the second floor. There's a lot of block chain applications that don't need 24 hours to run, and even if there's a safety problem, there's not much to lose. For example, there's a lot of non-financial applications that can do that. For example, there's some recording from block chains, or NFTs can already be placed in Rollup.

更危险的是特别高价值的 DeFi 的东西。如果你放 100、1000、10000 块在 Rollup 里面没有太大问题。但如果要开始做很多交易，可能每天一个亿的事情，有可能会遇到攻击服务器的事情。所以我的建议是很多东西可以在Rollup上做，但特别高价值的东西应该等一段时间。

Even more dangerous is the especially high-value DeFi thing. If you put 100, 1000, 10,000 in Rollup, there's no big problem. But if you start doing a lot of transactions, there's probably a billion things a day, there's a chance of going against the server. , so my advice is that a lot of things can be done on Rollup, but something especially valuable should wait a while.

03

Rollup 带来的好处

/strang'

2、咕噜：我们来回答第一个社区的问题：以太坊二层的主要应有在转账速度快和费用低以外，还有别的用途吗？

2 Gollum : Let's answer the question from the first community: is the key to the second level of the talisman in addition to the speed and low cost of transfers?

Vitalik：交易费更低是最重要的。

Vitalik: Lower transaction costs are paramount.

3、咕噜：第二个问题：以ETH作为手续费来捕获价值，当大量交易转移至 Rollup 以后，ETH 的价值还能长期与生态价值挂钩吗？我觉得这个问题问得非常好。

3. Gollum: The second question is: captures value with ETH as a service fee. Can the value of ETH be linked to ecological value in the long term after a large amount of transactions are transferred to Rollup? I think that's a very good question.

现在有的二层其实 GAS 的支付，除了 ETH，是有其他代币可以支付的。我想可能问的是这个问题。

Now there's actually two tiers of GAS payments, except for ETH, that have other tokens to pay. I think that's the question.

Vitalik：Rollup 之后，项目方还是会支付以太坊链上的交易费。可能用户会有很多方法（用其他代币支付在二层）付他们的交易费，但选择在 Rollup 上的应用项目方，以太坊上的节点还是需要发以太坊的交易，还是需要付以太坊链上的交易费。

Vitalik: After Rollup, the project party will pay the transaction fee on the Tai-Tang chain. There may be a number of ways for users to pay their transaction fee (in other currencies) on the second floor, but to choose the application party on Rollup, the node at the Taitang will have to issue the deal on the Taitang, or the transaction fee on the Taitang chain.

可以肯定的是，如果现在的交易需要付 100 块，可能 Rollup 之后，可能只需要付1块钱。当然不同的应用会有不同的效率。有时候 GAS 会降低 100 倍，有时候会降低 500 倍。

is certain that if a transaction takes 100 bucks now, maybe after Rollup, it'll only cost one dollar

因为 Rollup 的效率更高，费用更低。所以会在 Rollup 上产生更多的交易。如果现在每天以太坊有 100 万笔交易，每个交易需要付 100 块的交易费。如果大家都搬到 Rollup 之后，有可能每天会有 1 亿的交易量，这样每个交易哪怕是 1 块的交易费，总的交易费有可能会更高。

As Rollup is more efficient and less expensive, it will generate more transactions on Rollup. If there are now 1 million transactions per day in Tai shop, each transaction will have to pay $100 million per day. If everyone moves to Rollup, it will be possible to have 100 million transactions per day, so that each transaction will cost even one dollar, and the total transaction costs will be higher.

所以 ETH 依然会有手续费的价值。ETH也会有其他价值。总之，Rollup 对 ETH 的价值不是威胁，而是会有很大的帮助。

So ETH still has the value of the fees. ETH has other value. In short, Rollup's value to ETH is not a threat, but a great help.

4、咕噜：这个有个和刚才问题相关的问题：二层在后面会掠夺一层的价值吗？会发展起来形成新的公链吗？

4. Gollum : This is a related question: Will it develop into a new public chain?

Vitalik：总是有可能的。但我觉得如果这么做，以太坊社区会不喜欢。社区会特别快的搬到其他项目。我们的社区现在是比较严格的。如果你在做一个 Rollup 的项目，他们会看你的代码，看细节就会知道是否是真的在做Rollup。如果是真的他们会去，如果你说自己是 Rollup，但实际完全不是， 他们就会知道，就会用其他项目（用脚投票）。

Vitalik: It's always possible. But I think if I did this, the community wouldn't like it. The community would move very quickly to other projects. Our community is more stringent now. If you're doing a Rollup project, they'll look at your code and see if the details are actually doing Rollup. If they're going, if you say they're Rollup, but they're not, they'll know, they'll use other projects.

所以如果一个 Rollup 项目，开始说自己是 Rollup，却搬到其他链（做自己的公链），对项目本身的威胁会很大。

So if a Rollup project, which begins to say that it is Rollup, moves to other chains (to make its own public chain), the threat to the project itself will be great.

第二个问题，我们在做分片之后，会有很多分片的数据。以太坊的链做 Rollup 交易费有可能更低。所以从一个 Rollup 变成完全独立的公有链，我觉得没有什么更大的价值。因为以太坊生态的连接价值更大，如果离开以太坊生态我觉得没什么好处。

The second question is that, after we do the fragments, there will be a lot of fractional data. Rollup transaction costs are likely to be much lower with the Taipan chain. , so turning from a Rollup into a fully independent public chain, I don't think it's much more valuable

咕噜：如果从 Rollup 变成自己独立的一条公链的话，其实社区是可以做分叉的。Rollup 的二层是公开的数据，谁都可以来继续运行这个 Rollup。

Gollum : If it turns from Rollup to a public chain of its own, communities can make a break. Rollup's second floor is open data, and anyone can continue running this Rollup.

Vitalik：对。一个 Rollup 有一个合约，一个机制。如果 Rollup 项目想做一条独立的公链，Rollup 本身的合约还在，Rollup 的用户发现没有产生新的Rollup 区块，他们可以自己进去继续运行 Rollup。

Vitalik: Yes. A Rollup has a contract, a mechanism. If the Rollup project wants to make an independent public chain, Rollup's own contract is still in place, Rollup users find that no new Rollup block has been created, and they can go in and run Rollup themselves.

5、咕噜：以太坊扩容的方案 Layer 2 呼之欲出，代表项目路印已经上线，Vitalik 是否看好？

5. Gollum: Is Vitalik OK? .

Vitalik：特别看好。

Vitalik: special attention.

6、咕噜：7月份伦敦计划实施以后，每笔交易到底会降到多少钱？

6. Gollum : How much will each transaction fall to after the London Plan is implemented in July?

Vitalik：预测很难。因为交易费有多少要看用户总量有多少，搬到二层网络的技术如何以及以太坊网络的 GAS 费会不会更高。现在的 GAS 一直是 1250 万，有可能伦敦分叉之后，因为包括 EIP-2929，抗安全攻击会更高，有可能会 GAS 费会再提高一点。但至于提高到多少，我不知道。在伦敦计划之后，交易费有可能会很高，有可能不会很高。如果交易费真的太高，我觉得随着 4 或 6 个月之后 Rollup 的进展，能够在 Rollup 上做很多东西，在 Rollup 里面的交易费肯定会很低的。

Vitalik: It is difficult to predict. Because the amount of transaction costs depends on the total number of users, the technology to move to the second-tier network, and whether the GAS will be even more expensive. Now GAS has been 12.5 million, possibly after London's split, because, including EIP-2929, resistance to security attacks will be higher and the GAS will probably increase a little more. But as much as it is raised, I don't know.

04

Optimistic Rollup、Arbitrum Rollup、ZK Rollup

7、咕噜：下一个问题：怎么比较 Optimistic Rollup 和 Arbitrum Rollup 的区别。

7, : Next question: how to compare the differences between Optimistic Rollup and Arbitrum Rollup.

Vitalik：两个团队都是特别好的。我觉得它们最大技术的区别，Arbitrum 的机制是直接用 EVM 操纵。应用在 Arbitrum 上可以直接把代码运行。但Optimistic 在自己的合约中做了自己的EVM。所以不会把你的 EVM 代码直接运行，而是用内置的虚拟机，合约要分第一步、第二步、第三步运行。

Vitalik: Both teams are very good. I think the difference between their greatest technology is that Arbitrum's mechanism is directly operated by EVM. Applying it to Arbitrum can run the code directly. But Optimist made its own EVM in his own contract. So not running your EVM code directly, but using built-in virtual machines, the contract has to run in first, second and third steps.

Arbitrum 方法的优点是可以支持更多的 EVM，现在可以支持 EVM，之后可以支持更多的程序语言。但缺点是，在 Optimistic 发送一个交易，有可能是有效或者无效的，你可以直接知道结果。但在 Arbitrum 上，协议是要求你先发一个交易，另外的用户再发一个交易。交易有可能要重复三次或者五次，之后内置的虚拟机要做异步，要基于最后一步判断是你说的对还是其他人做的对。所以这个机制是更复杂的，需要的代码更多，所以我担心用这个方法会有更多的地方有安全危险，会有问题。但这个方法是更普遍的，可以支持更多的程序语言。

The advantage of the Arbitrum method can support more EVM, and can now support EVM, and then more program language. But the disadvantage is that sending a transaction in Optimistic may be valid or ineffective, and you can know the result directly. But in Arbitrum, the agreement is to require you to issue a transaction first and another transaction by another user. The transaction may have to be repeated three or five times, and the built-in virtual machine may have to be extravagant, depending on whether you are right or not. So this mechanism is more complex and requires more code , so I fear that there will be more security and problems in using this method. But this method is more common and more procedural language can be supported.

Optimistic 是更简单的，代码安全性更好。Arbitrum 可以支持更多的EVM，支持更多的程序语言。

Optimistic is simpler and more secure. Arbitrum can support more EVM and more program languages.

8、咕噜：在经济激励层面上，Optimistic Rollup 和 Arbitrum Rollup 都会有自己的原生 Token 吗？

8 Gollum : At the level of economic incentives, Optimistic Rollup and Arbitrum Rollup will have their original Token?

Vitalik：我不知道。我不知道有多大的可能。我们知道很多项目有自己的币 包括Uniswap。但这两个Rollup项目现在还没有公布他们的经济激励方案。所有也有可能一直不会有什么币。这还需要等他们自己说会有什么机制。

Vitalik: I don't know. I don't know how much of it is. We know that many of the projects have their own currency, including Uniswap. But these two Rollup projects have not yet announced their economic incentives. All of them may never have any currency.

9、咕噜：下一个问题，目前使用 Optimistic Rollup 方案只是暂时性的，以后最终会过度到 ZK Rollup 方案对吗？

9. Gollum: Next question, currently using the Optimistic Rollup program is only temporary and will eventually be overtaken by the ZK Rollup program?

Vitalik：ZK Rollup有更长期的未来。因为它的机制和经济协议会更简单。但这个长期的未来我不知道会是多久，有可能是 5 年、10 年。现在零知识证明的技术是比较复杂和新颖的。做完全 ZK 的虚拟机需要很多时间，以确定其是安全的。

Vitalik: ZK Rollup has a longer-term future . Because its mechanisms and economic agreements will be simpler. But I don't know how long this long-term future will be, possibly five or 10 years. Now zero-knowledge proven technology is more complex and novel. The ZK virtual machine takes a lot of time to make sure it's safe.

但一旦在很久以后实现吗，ZK Rollup 会有很多优点。我觉得很多的应用会搬到 ZK Rollup 上。

But once it's done in a long time, ZK Rollup will have a lot of advantages. I think a lot of applications will be moved to ZK Rollup.

05

扩容比2.0更紧迫

is more urgent than 2.0

10、咕噜：以太坊 2.0 推出太慢的话，容易被其他公链在这段时间超越。请问为什么不能更快一点推出？

10, Gollum: Etheria 2.0. If it's too slow, it can easily be overtaken by other public chains during this period. Please ask why it is not possible to do it faster.

Vitalik：现在短期解决扩展的问题真的不需要 2.0，而是需要 Rollup。

Vitalik: does not really need 2.0 to solve the problem of expansion in the short term, but Rollup.

现在以太坊根据交易的不同，有可能支持每秒 15 笔到 45 笔的交易。大家搬到Rollup之后，交易笔数会可能提高100倍。视具体的交易类型，TPS 可能会达到每秒 1500—4000 笔。

It is now possible to support 15 to 45 transactions per second depending on the transaction. When you move to Rollup, the number of transactional pens may increase 100 times. Depending on the type of transaction, TPS may reach 1,500 to 4,000 per second.

所以即使没有分片和以太坊 2.0，Rollup 的技术可以解决所有现在的扩容的问题。但长期来看，TPS 达到 4000 的公链有很多。但如果未来有更多人使用区块链，区块链变得更加主流，我们肯定需要更多的 TPS。因为现在主流的中心化的服务需要每秒 1 万或 10 万或更多的交易。所以长期来看，分片还是特别需要的。

So even without fragments and Ether 2.0, Rollup technology can solve all the current expansion problems . But in the long run, TPS has many public chains that reach 4000. If more people use the block chain in the future and the block chain becomes more mainstream, we certainly need more TPS. Because now mainstream central services require 10 million or 100,000 or more transactions per second. So, in the long run, fragmentation is particularly needed.

2.0 完成最大的价值是 PoW 完全搬到PoS，我们可以获得PoS很多优势。我们之前的计划，第一步是把 2.0 的链开始，这一步我们已经做了，PoS链已经运行了三个月，几乎没有问题；第二步我们原来的计划是分片，第三步是把现在的以太坊的 1.0 的链和 2.0 的链合并。

2.0 The greatest value of completion is that PoW is fully moved to PoS, and we can gain a lot of advantages from PoS. The first step before us was to start the 2.0 chain, which we've been doing for three months, with little problem. The second step was to split the 1.0 chain from the current Etherkom and the 2.0 chain .

但现在我们的计划是先做 1.0 和 2.0 的合并，再做分片。因为现在有很多社区（其他公链）要替代我们的生态。因此以太坊的两条链再次连成一条链，将由 PoW 到 PoS 的问题完全解决。分片的问题是可以缓一缓，多一点时间再做的。

But now our plan is to merge 1.0 and 2.0 and then to split

11、咕噜：目前已经有几个 Rollup 网络上线了。但用户迁移的资金并不多。有什么方法可以引导用户迁移过去？

11, Gollum: Several Rollup networks are already online. But there is not much money for the user to migrate. What can be done to guide the user to migrate?

Vitalik：现在有三个问题。第一个问题是以太坊的社区很多应用喜欢调用智能合约，比如 DeFi 的项目。但目前的 ZK Rollup 不支持智能合约，只支持发币、交易币等简单的应用。这是第一个问题。当我们有支持完整 EVM 的 Rollup 的时候， 我觉得会有更多的用户搬到 Rollup；

Vitalik: There are three problems. 's first question is that many of the community's applications like the DeFi project are calling for smart contracts. But the current ZK Rollup does not support smart contracts, but simply simple applications such as coins and tradables. This is the first question. When we have Rollup, which supports the full EVM, I think more users will move to Rollup;

第二个问题，现在 Rollup 相关的基础设施生态还不多。比如我们还没有解决不同的 Rollup 之间交易的问题。如果我有一些 Token 在 ZKsync怎么把 Token 搬到路印？首先需要把 Token 从 ZKsync 的二层提取到以太坊底层，然后再转移到 Loopring 的二层账户。如果这样做了，交易费会不会特别高？

The second question is not much about the infrastructure ecology of Rollup. For example, we haven't solved a different transaction between Rollup. If there's some Token in ZKsync, how do I move Token to the roadmarks? First, we need to extract Token from the second floor of ZKsync to the bottom of Etheria and then to the second floor of Loopring's account. Would the transaction cost be particularly high?

另外一个问题是，有很多服务还不支持 Rollup。比如现在还没有交易所直接支持 ZKsync 或 Loopring 做 Dpos。但这点上会有变化，我已经知道有很多交易平台在研究 Rollup。

Another problem is that there are a lot of services that don't support Rollup. For example, there are no exchanges that directly support ZKsync or Loopring to do Dpos. But that's going to change, and I already know that there are many trading platforms that study Rollup.

现在以太坊上会有很多用户体验方面的挑战（问题）。但我觉得 6 个月之后很多这些问题都会解决。

There are many challenges (problems) that will be experienced by users in Ether now. But I think many of these problems will be solved in six months.

12、咕噜：下面这个问题是来自用户的质疑。随着 Rollup 二层的应用越来越多，二层的项目也越来越多，也会一样拥挤。到最后还是解决不了手续费高的问题。

12, grunt: The following question comes from users. , as the Rollup 2 level is used more and more projects in the Rollup 2nd level, will be crowded as well. Finally, it will not solve the problem of high fees.

Vitalik：如果在 Rollup 上的空间不够，我们会有分片，会扩展 Rollup 的数据空间。但我觉得二层的扩展性不会有问题。我们需要更多扩展性的时候，第一步是建立分片，然后可以一直把分片升级，这不是我担心的。

Vitalik: If there's not enough space on Rollup, we'll have a piece that will expand Rollup's data space. But I think there's no problem with the extension of the second layer. When we need more expansion, the first step is to build the fragments, and then we can always upgrade them, which is not my concern.

我会担心的问题是，如果 Layer 1 一层的 Gas 费会一直特别高，有很多东西你可以在一个 Rollup 中实现，但如果需要在不同的 Rollup 中进行交易，需要付特别高的 GAS 费，会有意外的情况要求你调用底层。这时的交易费会变得特别高。这是个真正的问题。但我们也在研究很多方法减少这种情况。

The problem I'm worried about is that if Lyer's 1st floor Gas fees are going to be particularly high, and there's a lot of things you can do in a Rollup, but if you have to deal in a different Rollup, and you have to pay a particularly high GAS fees, there's an unexpected need for you to call the bottom. This is going to be a very high transaction cost. This is a real problem. But we're also looking at a lot of ways to reduce this.

比如一个例子是，如果一个 Rollup 出了问题，很多用户可以同时发一个交易， 就可以实现调用一次底层交易，把用户的账户从一个 Rollup 搬到另一个 Rollup 。这种方法可以减少意外情况中 Layer 1 一层网络的成本。所以有很多技术的方法，但需要比较多的时间去开发。但我觉得我们可以做到。

One example is that if a Rollup is in trouble and many users can make one transaction at a time, they can make one call to the bottom and move the user's account from one Rollup to another. This way can reduce the cost of the Layer 1 layer of network in the event of an accident. So there are many techniques, but it takes a lot of time to develop. But I think we can do that.

13、咕噜：下面一个问题，你看好哪些Rollup项目？

13, Gollum : The next question is, do you see which Rollup projects?

Vitalik：我喜欢所有的。Optimistic 很好，Arbitrum 很好，ZKsync、Loopring 也很好。DeversiFi 现在没有很多人在谈，但我觉得这个项目也是很有意思的。大概现在我们有五个（Rollup 的项目）。但我知道有更多的团队在做 Rollup。

Vitalik: I like everything. Optimistic good, Arbitrum good, ZKsync good, Loupring good. DeversiFi doesn't talk much, but I don't think this project is interesting. We probably have five of them now. But I know that more teams are doing Rollup.

06 EIP-1559

14、咕噜：我看到大家问了很多和 EIP-1559 有关的问题。我觉得我们可以花一点时间谈一谈你对 EIP-1559 的想法。现在有很多人强烈的反对或强烈的同意，社区中是有争议的。请 Vitalik 谈一下你的想法。

14, Gollum: I see you've been asking a lot of questions about EIP-1559. I think we can take a moment to talk about your idea of EIP-1559. There's a lot of strong opposition or strong agreement, and there's controversy in the community. Please talk about your idea.

Vitalik：EIR -1559 对以太坊生态是很重要的。可以解决很多用户底层的问题。比如用户需要选择多高的交易费问题。如果想要很快的实现交易，需要支付很高的交易费，如果选择更低的交易费，会产生风险，交易需要等一分钟、三分钟、一个小时或者一天。EPR -1559 可以解决诸如此类的问题。（让交易手续费更加可预测）

Vitalik: EIR-1559 is important for Etheria ecology. Many user bottom-level problems can be solved. such as how much transaction fees the user needs to choose. If a transaction is to be made quickly, a high transaction fee will have to be paid. If a lower transaction fee is chosen, there will be risks, and the transaction will have to wait one minute, three minutes, one hour or one day.

EPR -1559 也有很多其他好处。其中一个被大家经常提起的好处是，大部分的交易费会被销毁。这种情况下如果以太坊的交易费总量更多，ETH 的总量就会减少。以太坊经济模型会变得更加可持续。

EPR-1559 has a number of other benefits. One of the benefits that is often raised is that most of the transaction costs will be destroyed. In this case, the sum of ETH will be reduced. The economic model will become more sustainable.

现在有很多人批评以太坊认为，比特币有 2100 万枚的总量上限。但以太坊 ETH 没有上限，所以他们认为 ETH 会不稳定。但如果有 EPR -1559 之后，有了更多的交易，有可能 ETH 的总量会降低，或者总量只会涨一点点（从通胀到适度通缩——行走注）。这个经济模式的改变也是很多人特别期待的。

There are now many critics of the fact that Bitcoin has a 21 million cap. But it has no cap, so they think that it will be unstable.

还有很多人在去年担心 EPR -1559 有很多风险，因为是一个新的经济机制。但我们最近一年做了很多研究，包括自己的研究，包括美国博弈论教授的研究报告，包括 Filecoin 的 EPR -1559 大家都可以看到结果。所以到了现在，EPR -1559 的风险减少了很多。

A lot of people were worried last year about the risks of EPR-1559, because it was a new economic mechanism. But we have done a lot of research in the past year, including our own research, including that of the American playbook professor, including the EPR-1559 of Filecoin. So, by now, the risk of EPR-1559 has been significantly reduced.

07

ETH和其他公链的关系

ETH and other public chain

15、咕噜：大家还问了很多关于以太坊的竞争者，其他的公有链的问题。我觉得大家是想问以太坊二层技术和现在其他智能合约平台的竞争关系会发生怎样的变化？

15, Gollum : Many questions have been asked about Ether's competitors, other public chains. I think the question is,

Vitalik：这个很难预测。我觉得以太坊和很多竞争链的区别是，竞争链的 TPS 会更高。他们自己宣传自己时会说，以太坊的链很慢，我们的链 TPS 更高，区块链是更快的。但它们的选择有一个缺点，就是它们的链会更中心化。

Vitalik: This is difficult to predict. I think the difference between Tai Lo and many competitive chains is that the TPS of the competitive chain will be higher . , when propagating themselves, they will say, that the chain of Etai is slow, our chain of TPS is higher, and the chain of blocks is faster.

以太坊的链如果你有一个电脑，就可以运行自己的节点。但这些竞争链中，第一个问题是它们的节点更少，第二个问题是共识算法有时是 TPoS，有时是PoA，节点会特别少，有可能 10 个、20 个、100 个。有一些应有不需要特别的去中心化，可能短期会用其他链。但长期当以太坊有 Rollup 之后，以太坊可以在不牺牲去中心化的安全前提下，性能也会更高，会有更多的扩展性。我觉得当我们拥有这些 Rollup 时，Rollup 和其他链的竞争会很有意思。

Ether's chain can run its own nodes if you have a computer. The first issue in these competitive chains is that they have fewer nodes, and the second is that consensus algorithms are sometimes TTPoS, sometimes PoA, with very few nodes, possibly 10, 20, 100. Some should be decentralized without special need, and other chains may be used in the short term. But long after Ether has Rollup, Ether can also have higher performance and more expansion without sacrificing the safety of decentralisation. I think it would be interesting to have Rollup and other chains when we have these Rollup.

08

分层和分片

stratification and fractals

16、咕噜：我们提最后一个问题。如果分层网络做得很成功的话，还有必要做分片吗？

16, Gollum : Let's ask the last question. If the stratification network is successful, is it still necessary to do a split?

Vitalik：我觉得短期没有必要，但是长期有必要。使用 Rollup 带来的扩展性是有限的。Rollup 每一次交易还是会有一点交易会发生在以太坊的链上（一层）。有些应用性能会提升 100 倍、200 倍或 500 倍。短期这样的性能的提升是足够的。但长期当有更多用户开始使用区块链，比如有 5 亿以太坊的新增用户，Rollup 是不够的。这时我们需要将 Rollup 和分片两个技术用结合起来。

Vitalik: I don't think it's necessary in the short term, but it's necessary in the long term . The extension of the Rollup is limited. Rollup will have a little deal in Ether's chain each time. Some applications will increase 100 times, 200 times, or 500 times. The short-term enhancement is sufficient. But it is not enough for more users to start using block chains in the long term, for example, 500 million new users in the underworld.

咕噜：感 谢Vitalik 回答了不少关于 Rollup 和二层的问题。非常感谢 Vitalik 起了个大早和中国社区做深入的分享。祝愿以太今年在 Rollup 的二层网络能够顺利的进行，给以太坊生态带来质的飞跃。也感谢 Vitalik 一直辛勤的努力。我自己在这次分享中有很多收获。

GRUNG : Thank you Vitalik for answering a number of questions about Rollup and Tier 2. Thank you very much for an in-depth sharing of Vitalik with the Chinese community. Wish you well on this year's Rollup second-tier network and a qualitative leap in Ether ecology. Thank you, Vitalik, for your hard work.

在中国社区建设上你有什么期望吗？

What do you expect about building Chinese communities?

Vitalik：希望 Rollup 这些扩展的技术能够得到社区用户的互相支持。因为以太坊的生态会有很多挑战，有来自扩展性的挑战，有来自复杂的完全版的以太坊2.0和PoS的过程，还有安全的挑战，隐私的挑战。但我们也有更多很好的技术 ，我们有很好的全球社区。因此希望大家互相支持和帮助，这样我们可以搭建更好的，让更多人可用的区块链生态。

Vitalik: It is hoped that Rollup's extended technologies will be mutually supportive by community users. Because the Etherm's ecology has many challenges, with expansionary challenges, with complex complete versions of Ether 2.0 and Pos, with security challenges, with privacy. We also have more good technologies, and we have good global communities. So we hope that we can all support and help each other so that we can build better and more accessible block chain ecology.

咕噜：我们也希望整个以太坊中国社区能够一如既往的团结。一起推动激动人心的项目，让世界上更多的人能够使用。

Gollum : We also want the entire Ether community to be as united as ever. Together, we promote exciting projects so that more people around the world can use them.

以上为直播全部内容，内容全文由行走整理。

All of the above is broadcast live and the full text is organized by walkers.

『声明：本文为作者独立观点，不代表白话区块链立场，本内容仅供广大加密爱好者科普学习和交流，不构成投资意见或建议，请理性看待，树立正确的理念，提高风险意识。文章版权和最终解释权归白话区块链所有。』

Statement: This is the author's independent view and does not represent a white block chain position, which is intended only for a wide range of cryptographers to learn and communicate, and does not constitute an investment opinion or recommendation, to be rational, to develop the right ideas and to raise awareness of risk. Copyright and final interpretation of articles belong to the white block chain.

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Author: The White Word Block Chain; The Winner from the Open-Continued Content Platform. This paper only represents the author's view. It does not represent the validity of the original and content of the official position of the chain. The original and trueness of the article is guaranteed by the contributor. If the text is a legal consequence of the copying, forgery, etc., it is the responsibility of the author himself to get the article published on the Platform. If the content of the article is violated, irregular or otherwise inappropriate, please be supervised by a wide audience. If it is confirmed, the platform will be offline immediately. If there is a problem with the content of the article, send it to the mailbox: linggeqi@chaind.com责任编辑：

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